tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post3779359300524697572..comments2023-10-18T10:36:01.631-05:00Comments on 1WineDude :: Serious wine talk for the not-so-serious drinker!: Ethics and Wine Blogging (or "Ouch! I've Got a Neck Cramp From All This Navel-Gazing!")Joe Robertshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12302860568125840279noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-17826048691279587872008-11-09T06:12:00.000-05:002008-11-09T06:12:00.000-05:00The only leap I don't quite follow is the suggesti...The only leap I don't quite follow is the suggestion that Jeff is somehow your "editor." I dunno. The fear, I'm sure, is that people might perceive a slightly fine line between "editor" and "unscrupulous winery patsy who uses his position of acclaim in the blogosphere to force strings-attached sample bottles on his compadres." <BR/><BR/>Or maybe he's actually your editor. I don't know the ins and outs. Sorry if I'm out of line.<BR/><BR/>(Also, I wish I was up on this back when it was happening. What a controversy! Just what the doctor ordered for the tired world of wine blogging, says I.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-37011232181110436242008-09-02T11:44:00.000-05:002008-09-02T11:44:00.000-05:00Amazingly, there is *still* discussion in the wine...Amazingly, there is *still* discussion in the wine blog-o-land about this topic.<BR/><BR/>Listen up, peeps!<BR/><BR/>For the record:<BR/><BR/>Tom Wark has officially apologized for how he handled this topic (he did this on his WineBizRadio.com appearance this week).<BR/><BR/>Since my only beef with Tom was *how* he treated me and my fellow 'Rockaway 7' bloggers in raising his point on blogging ethics, his apology is ACCEPTED by me.<BR/><BR/>In fact, I am right now extending Tom an apology for my "handing him is jock strap" comment on his blog. It was funny, but totally ungracious of me to discuss my follow up comments like that.<BR/><BR/>It's so OVER - let's pick up the pieces worth keeping on this (furthering the wine blogging community through progression of ethical standards) and leave the rest!<BR/><BR/>Cheers!Joe Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12302860568125840279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-35492351897770012882008-08-31T14:12:00.000-05:002008-08-31T14:12:00.000-05:00Thanks, michael.It's important to note that this i...Thanks, michael.<BR/><BR/>It's important to note that this is the first time anything like this has *ever* happened to me in the wine blogging community, which for years has been nothing but fun, supportive, and welcoming to me.<BR/><BR/>I am *positive* that this experience is the exception, and NOT the rule for the community.<BR/><BR/>In fact, my understanding is that on the www.winebizradio.com taping today (to be aired and podcasted tomorrow), Tom Wark offered an apology to me and the other participants on how he handled this. I am sure that I will be accepting Tom's apology and likely will offer one or two of my own his way as well.<BR/><BR/>The future of the community remains bright, and vital. DON'T let this experience taint that perception for you if you can help it. I think you will find a great group of people out there willing to support you along the way!<BR/><BR/>Cheers!Joe Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12302860568125840279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-7960086991977132732008-08-31T12:32:00.000-05:002008-08-31T12:32:00.000-05:00Joe -- Thanks for making this whole ordeal known t...Joe -- Thanks for making this whole ordeal known to your readers. As a newish wine blogger and new reader of yours, it's nice to have your story as a reference point for what to potentially expect in the future.<BR/><BR/>-michaelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-31694102673073292542008-08-31T10:44:00.000-05:002008-08-31T10:44:00.000-05:00Interesting point about Gary V. At least every tim...Interesting point about Gary V. At least every timehe does a video, everyone KNOWS he is in a position to profit from his opinions. <BR/><BR/>My problem with Gary is that he has become soe reliant on RP and WS scores that the only way he can toot his horn for wines he simply loves, he has to resort to his own "GV" rating. That undermines his authority, IMHO, whereas I have great respect for retailers who can just say to me. "If you like X, you gotta try Y or Z". No numbers needed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-77241766251997052162008-08-30T18:34:00.000-05:002008-08-30T18:34:00.000-05:00"WHAT I LEARNED ON MY SUMMER VACATION" Or "Rocka-...<B>"WHAT I LEARNED ON MY SUMMER VACATION" Or "Rocka-Bye-BYE Rockaway-Gate"</B><BR/><BR/>And with this comment... I put a final close to all things "Rockaway-gate" related (at least, from my perspective anyway).<BR/><BR/>The most civil and interesting (not to mention well-stated) restatement of concepts and events can be found here:<BR/><A HREF="http://biggerthanyourhead.net/2008/08/30/i-am-half-sick-of-bloggers-said-the-lady-of-shalott/" REL="nofollow">http://biggerthanyourhead.net/2008/08/30/i-am-half-sick-of-bloggers-said-the-lady-of-shalott/<BR/></A><BR/><BR/>What did I learn from all of this? Quite a bit:<BR/><BR/>1) It's not OK to make your point by throwing people under the bus. It's also not OK to retaliate by throwing the guy who threw the guys under the bus under the bus.<BR/><BR/>2) I miss wine. I love wine. I love talking about wine. And I really, really don't love talking about talking about wine.<BR/><BR/>3) Hyperbole and Gonzo are writing styles, not everyone will dig them, to some if will look like I'm pandering, etc.... but I don't really have enough talent to try another style, so we're just gonna have to make due with what we got!<BR/><BR/>Be good to yourself.<BR/><BR/>Be good to others.<BR/><BR/>And build the wine community!<BR/><BR/>Cheers!Joe Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12302860568125840279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-49772000379791991822008-08-30T12:49:00.000-05:002008-08-30T12:49:00.000-05:00Hey Jon - thanks for the comment! You raise an in...Hey Jon - thanks for the comment! You raise an interesting point, but I doubt Gary's alone in that, and he openly discusses his potential conflicts of interest.<BR/><BR/>On the website for the Society of Professional Journalists (as far as I'm aware, neither Gary or myself are members), they have a CoE:<BR/>http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp .<BR/><BR/>It includes this interesting tidbit:<BR/>"Avoid conflicts of interest, real or <I><B>perceived</B></I>." (emphasis is mine)<BR/><BR/>That's a tough call for *anyone* to do consistently in today's media!Joe Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12302860568125840279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-10512289152065691192008-08-30T12:44:00.000-05:002008-08-30T12:44:00.000-05:00If we are calling into question the ethics of blog...If we are calling into question the ethics of bloggers, why not address the biggest offender of them all, GARY V. who claims to be objective when he reviews wine but happens to directly profit from any review he makes by virtue of owning Wine Library. How can you objectively review the product you are selling?<BR/><BR/>Would we trust a car dealer to objectively review the cars he has in inventory? Or a restaurant to review its own menu?<BR/><BR/>I am really excited that there is an alternative to traditional media when it comes to learning about wine and BLOGGERS are that alternative, all I ask is that I know in what capacity they may be involved with the wine or winery that they review.<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/><BR/>JonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-86594979333449803162008-08-30T12:29:00.000-05:002008-08-30T12:29:00.000-05:00Wow - amazingly, this thing *still* has legs...Som...Wow - amazingly, this thing *still* has legs...<BR/><BR/>Some interesting discussion going on with Tom over at GoodGrape.com :<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.goodgrape.com/index.php/articles/comments/on_glory_whores_and_tom_wark_getting_swift_boated/" REL="nofollow">http://www.goodgrape.com/index.php/articles/comments/on_glory_whores_and_tom_wark_getting_swift_boated/</A><BR/><BR/>The pot is <I>really</I> callin' the kettle black now.<BR/><BR/>Ding-dong.<BR/><BR/>"Jock strap delivery for Mr. Wark..."Joe Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12302860568125840279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-26621598386738814502008-08-30T12:14:00.000-05:002008-08-30T12:14:00.000-05:00should read from a wine company--sorry about the t...should read from a wine company--sorry about the typo.Dr. Debshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02892131332003571463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-61685947325138742852008-08-30T11:51:00.000-05:002008-08-30T11:51:00.000-05:00Perceptive comment, Chicago Pinot. Especially sinc...Perceptive comment, Chicago Pinot. Especially since the same week of Jeff's cooperative experiment, a group of bloggers accepted samples of Hugel and a wine company in exchange for reviewing them at the same time on Twitter. Nobody raised eyebrows there, and in my opinion they behaved appropriately because they said they were samples. So did we. <BR/><BR/>So yes, I think "size" matters, or at least it seems to have in this case.Dr. Debshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02892131332003571463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-55963279110695574612008-08-29T22:49:00.000-05:002008-08-29T22:49:00.000-05:00As long as this convo goes on and on, here's a dif...As long as this convo goes on and on, here's a different angle to consider.<BR/><BR/>Suppose it wasn't Rodney Strong? After all, even non wine obsessives have probably seen this winemaker in their favorite wine store or restaurant (even fake ones promoted by Wine Porn mags).<BR/><BR/>Let's say the wine in question was a debut release from a nobody who invested in a dream, who maybe had a hobby in a past life as . . . a wine blogger.<BR/><BR/>Let's say this winemaking newbie couldn't get the Wine Porn community to take notice, so he/she decided on a different strategy to give his/her wine a fair chance.<BR/><BR/>I'm just suggesting that the Dr. Lauras of the wine blogging world might be a little more forgiving in this case, if some of their bretheren/sisteren agreed to this winemaker's terms.Douglas Trapassohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18348522207945522495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-81706000728342343062008-08-29T19:42:00.000-05:002008-08-29T19:42:00.000-05:00well spoken, willyboy... no karma available in ne...well spoken, willyboy... no karma available in negative-responses land...Joe Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12302860568125840279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-37676233247359947852008-08-29T17:22:00.000-05:002008-08-29T17:22:00.000-05:00Pedantic is the operative word about all this...ho...Pedantic is the operative word about all this...how does any of this crap advance your audiences enjoyment of wine? Let it go Vin-dicator....or at least just give the facts on your blog...stay out of direct confrontation on theirs...and realize that all this sarcasm and confrontation hurts the entire blogosphere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-32020122552230150122008-08-29T14:48:00.000-05:002008-08-29T14:48:00.000-05:00Agent Red (if that is indeed your *real* name): Yo...Agent Red (if that is indeed your *real* name): You mean your program was fun, introduced blog readers to interesting wines, and didn't get embroiled in a mud pit of pedantic controversy with no basis in facts?<BR/><BR/>How **boring**...Joe Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12302860568125840279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-16283396876647542612008-08-29T13:58:00.000-05:002008-08-29T13:58:00.000-05:00This all seems like a tempest in a wine grape to m...This all seems like a tempest in a wine grape to me...<BR/><BR/>More than a year ago, I instituted a guest blogger/reviewer program. This "Wine Spy for a Day" program only required that the blogger meet a publication deadline - and an <I>honest</I> review of the wine. The deadline was necessary because we only sell one wine per day, and we integrated our guest reviews into our own on the day of the sale.<BR/><BR/>We provided links from our site to the guest bloggers site if said blogger also mentioned their participation as an Agent on the day of the sale.<BR/><BR/>Our program never raised eyebrows and it was great fun for all involved. Our program was transparent, but wasn't the Rockaway 'experiment'? <BR/><BR/>Being an admitted attention whore for my brand, I kind of wish that our "Wine Spy for a Day" program had created this sort of controversy. Maybe next time.<BR/><BR/>- Agent RedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-13792269772149443932008-08-29T12:26:00.000-05:002008-08-29T12:26:00.000-05:00Thanks for the comments all! tish - are you sayin...Thanks for the comments all! <BR/><BR/>tish - are you saying that I won't be able to evaluate McCain's or Obama's platforms on the basis of their stand on this issue?<BR/><BR/>Crap, there goes *my* plan for picking a new President...<BR/><BR/>;-)Joe Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12302860568125840279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-10571603264617039442008-08-29T12:17:00.000-05:002008-08-29T12:17:00.000-05:00I have read through a lot of the posts and comment...I have read through a lot of the posts and comments on this ROcakway thing, and it is entirely new territory for all involved (and those who are not, as in the print media). I think you have presented yourself well in terms of your own rationale, and see this not so much as an ethical issue as growing pains for the blogging as media. <BR/><BR/>There are far more serious ethical issues in the wine world than this...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-21646566235953286272008-08-29T10:08:00.000-05:002008-08-29T10:08:00.000-05:00Cheers to this latest post!You chose the most exce...Cheers to this latest post!<BR/><BR/>You chose the most excellent and classy way to address the entire issue - YOU ARE ASKING YOUR READERS for THEIR opinions. <BR/><BR/>We are the ones that matter most. LET US choose whether or not we believe your actions to be ethical (which by the way I think that you did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong and completely support your decision)<BR/><BR/>As for the slander from other bloggers and journalists around the internet, it happens. Jealousy can be a powerful ans dangerous thing. The media loves to trigger controversy. <BR/><BR/>My experience in the beer blogging world is no where near as dramatic as this. In fact, all I have ever gotten is support, advice, "props" and high-fives from others in my community. I know a very respected beer journalist and consultant who has gladly given me constructive criticism to help ensure my credibility.<BR/><BR/>Social media and social networks are about building relationships and communities. It is really sad to see a community of passionate individuals lash out on each other like this. Way too much ego bashing. <BR/><BR/>In any case, just keep doing what you do best. Blog about the wonderful world of wine. Us readers are smart - we can see through the bullshit. In my eyes, you are a very respected and trusted member of the wine blogging community!!!<BR/><BR/>CHEERS!Ashley V. Routsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00371463783126507754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-836834983159060886.post-31542843736244385732008-08-29T10:02:00.000-05:002008-08-29T10:02:00.000-05:00The bottom line? Tom and Steve are wrong. Neither...The bottom line? Tom and Steve are wrong. Neither can explain what the ethical violation might have been, other than that it was an ethical violation. Pure bootstrapping.dhonighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17514277845922195085noreply@blogger.com